In this Facebook Live, meet engineers on our team who made the move from finance to Facebook in order to tackle the biggest challenges in tech.

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to our financier Facebook live well we will be discussing joining Facebook with a background in finance well chat about what we did before joining Facebook that's verbal skills in the life at Facebook I'm your host Don I'm an engineering manager at Facebook and please ask questions during this broadcast and we will get to a few throughout the live so let's click off with some intros from our group here introduce yourself Swan tell us about the team you worked on and what impact it has at Facebook how everyone I'm trying I'm a software engineer in the similarity detection in front which is part of the integrity infra we support a lot of info like integrity teams both in London in and other places so our main task is to find similar contents more quickly and in larger skills ok so that we could better deal with the violating photos and videos and to protect our community from unpleasant contents and stuff now do what team do you work on and what impact does it help I'm part of the sapiens team and it's an automated testing team we try to find crashes in all of our apps before they are released to the public and we in some cases we also try to fix them automatically cool and dug so I work on infrastructure of Facebook so I work on a team called scribe which is basically a distributed logging into infrastructure we move more than terabyte of data every second inside of Facebook which is pretty interesting and this is this team is entirely in London and the project is supported and that's pretty cool I'm done I'm an engineering manager I manage testing a verification at Facebook this is a set of teams to find bugs in Facebook's code so let's talk about what we were doing before Facebook we all worked in finance in different forms what led you to Facebook so before Facebook I spent a few years working for a proprietary trading company here in London and before that I was at Google so I kind of knew both ends I learned a lot working in the trading firm I worked on a front office team helping the Kwan's to turn their ideas in to working strategies but after a while I kind of ended up missing the culture and the scale of a company like Google or Facebook so a friend of mine who's been here for like ten years has been trying to get me to consider coming to Facebook and I reached out him he started introducing me to people at Facebook and here oh yeah tear about a second Nadia I was an information architect in a bank I was working in cybersecurity I'm kind of data modeling and data quality and that sort of thing I I knew of the sapiens team because some of the people on its were my like previous colleagues and what they do is very similar to what I did in my PhD so for me that was like a dream job to work on that's the sort of thing as well so I was a software engineer in risk team I was my job was to help build the xxx trading systems and what let me hear is um I was very attracted by the culture here after I talking to a couple of friends and classmates in working in Facebook I feel is a better fit for me so Europe yeah in my background I was head of a global strats team in derivatives wholesale banking building trading systems and risk systems and ultimately all kinds of pricing and trading systems the I think I remember waking up on morning after a three months tour of Singapore on the trading floor thinking I need to do something new I've reached a limit of what I can do in this in this job and Facebook offered a scope that was much bigger and this kind of terabyte a second challenge the scale to think of so it's one how did you know Facebook would be an option for you you were out at Canary Wharf had you thought about applying your talents to a tech company I learned about the this opportunities through my classmates mainly so I the job at Canary Wharf was the first one after my graduation I worked there less than two years during that time I still keep contact with my classmates at school and want to hang out I get to know what they were doing and what kind of life they were having and so that and then nine I got to know what they were looking for for us our engineers I know I have the skills so I just apply you could really see the difference of your classmates who are already here yes yes exactly so they are more like they have a more serious attitude towards technologies and they seek more challenges here and you're more of a technology focus yes yeah yeah I guess my my thinking was similar I had worked in the u.s. in in the West Coast on a start-up and I'd worked in New York and Singapore in London in in banking and ultimately it was also for engineering it was computer science I was coming in and doing caches I was doing low latency systems I was optimizing for reliability so I was doing technology and I knew that that's a transferable skill I hadn't thought of how Facebook could you think of it as a website or as of a set of mobile apps what are the actual technical challenges in the backend is actually all like building trading systems I had a colleague who I've been in touch with over a decade who'd suggested opportunities and I never really bitten but the right team at the right time and testing verification is very similar to my background they made it made good sense and Doug how did you how did you think of Facebook as an option you'd heard the Google Experience so when I was at Google I sort of had the option of joining Facebook at that time and it felt like too much of a risk Facebook was very young and Google seemed like a safe option yeah I probably should have made the opposite choice but it was already there in the background in my head so when I'd start admitting the large scale tech culture I reached out to two people in Facebook and started meeting people from Facebook which was a really positive experience I really enjoyed kind of the culture that I was very open right we'll bring you in coming through the office I really this was pre interviewed so there's a really interesting experience and then did a lot of practice on the interview process made sure that I was gonna pass from there we were you practicing the coding questions or the design questions all of them we gave very good material yeah appreciation the the recruiting people were very supportive they pointed me at various videos and sites to basically cover what was gonna happen in the interviews yeah so it didn't feel like any of it was a surprise yeah yeah I remember I got my common algorithms booked down from the you know the back of the shelf and implementing merge so Nadia what are some of the misconceptions about working at Facebook that you can remember from before and also from perhaps your colleagues and how's your experience being different so one thing you mentioned interviews one thing is that people often think that if they hadn't if they didn't have a job where they were coding every day then it would be very hard for them to pass the interview and I don't think that's true because for example I didn't do much coding in the year before I joined here but I still was able to pass I did need to do a lot of practicing maybe probably more than people who are coding in architecture and modeling yeah yeah so but it's still possible so I think if if you're not doing like a developer or coding job it doesn't mean that you can't move to Facebook another thing so another thing is I guess you also had the same experience is that people think it's a website's and you're just gonna be and that's of course not true for me I maybe didn't know the extent of the like the project that were in Facebook and the exciting things that were going on so when I joined in boot camp where all the teams come and pitch for you to choose which team you wanted to join I was amazed by the by how interesting the projects were and I just kind of wanted to join more than one team so that was really an eye-opener it's amazing to come into engineer and you're in a class and all these managers stood up to sell their teams to you and you get to choose yeah it's clearly the demand it's only on the engineering team to try and find people and it could be what's up or it could be oculus it could be VR it could be you know C++ low latency systems yep my experience was was similar I think the usual joke was okay it's a PHP website company because it's not like that at all I think I used more than five languages in boot camp just so many things get a badge with us some high schools of JavaScript the the CIO of London at the time was setting me boot camp asked to implement JavaScript features and of course I didn't know that it was just somebody suspending me some tasks in boot camp because there's no there's no expectation of level or title you just come in and you do the work and you learn about the company and it's very healthy the experience have been quite different coming from a bank where there were expectations of being on a trading floor and being in a desk you know 8:00 till late till 6:00 or 8:00 till 5:00 I have you I have young children so I now have the mornings blocked off to drop them off at nursery I have evenings blocked off to to be at home so they have a meal and can be tucked into bed the flexibility around the work is quite different so it's much more about get the work done not burn the hours it's nothing to measure it in hours and you know we still have we have no meeting Wednesdays we have work from home heavily heavy amounts of work form on an online collaboration through tools like workplace I think that's makes the work more flexible and I didn't anticipate how much different that would be there's been a pretty amazing change so if you're if you're watching don't forget to ask questions we'll get to any as they come in as many as we can so let's let's talk about the different career tracks dug so we have the manager and we have the individual contributor or I see track at Facebook these are the two main career path for certain people with an engineering background what's been your experience on the icy track so one thing which is different about a company like Facebook from a person to a lot of European companies is that the icy track goes all the way up you can be if you if you're successful as an icy you can carry on on that track up to level which is equivalent to a vice president of the company so as long as you're successful and well maybe we'll talk about that later your career path is not capped by you wanting to stay as an individual you never have to become a manager just because you run out of options yeah to grow yeah and the other thing which is important is that as you become more senior than I see you'll be asked if you're interested in management you get to there's structured learning around that you can switch to the management track but you can also switch back there's no friction the levels are equivalent the compensations equivalent yeah yeah you can change careers without any of the other aspects changing it's about your your passion for engineering or growth of others and coaching yeah yeah it is astonishing to see how we you know we have VP equivalent engineers engineers were board level equivalent dude they've measured on changing the industry and changing the company is that is there is there focus on the manager side it is as you say you you you do your you come in and it qualifies an engineer in the interview but you're also assess or people management and project management and empathy and coaching and delegation is is a key distinguisher so it's it's it's whether you derive your passion through others or through through writing code and sometimes I switch between both but the the manager track there's no assumption that you that you know how to do it you come in as a manager you have to sort of passionately round about people and coaching that's really the driver and then you get trained you get really good coaching the the kind of learning and development opportunities we have for managers is astonishing I'll it's so much more about managing projects I'd had ten years of project management and people management but never in a structured way and never in an intentional way way we do it here so I learned much more about about delegation about growth the focus on growth of engineers as the primary driver of an engineer managers and general manager successes is really astonishing I'm really healthy so so I measured as an engineering manager through how will I grow other people and the impact that they have so maybe that's a good point to talk about collaboration we we don't code in a silo we code with others but we also don't do top-down planning so you're not told what to do and your engineering manager would never say no don't do that it's up to you to find things and do them and then to have impact you know you're any engineering mentor is your coach to be successful you have to collaborate there's nothing that works at this scale without a lot of people helping so Nadia how do you collaborate with others and how do you go about that so like you said as engineers we come up with the ideas and let's say you know the objective of your team and you're trying to come up with new new ways of kind of having more impact and reaching that objective more successfully so for example if I had an idea about how to change our algorithms to find more crashes or something then I would usually I would talk to other members on my team just to get some feedback you might also use what place to post about it especially if it's an if it's an idea that might affect more than one team or something broadcasting the idea and yeah it's being where it lands and if people think it's a good idea and they believe in it then you would get people kind of chipping in and having more like more of a discussion giving more maybe ideas how to implement what you're trying to do and maybe even working with you on it and that's like how it goes for me my whole team is in and a lot of the teams we work on work with are also in London so it's it's very easy to just set up a one-to-one or to walk up to someone's desk and ask a question or talk about something so it's it's it's very I feel the invite the the work environment just encourages you and helps you to collaborate and you have several ways you can take the idea you can take it to a hackathon and you know we have these fairly regularly you just it's a good idea I'm not sure if it's something to do right now but we wait for the hackathon and then you'll just hack together with somebody drink coffee 24 hours looking for a product or it might be a bootcamp idea or it might be a war room sometimes we'll have a sprints where we have these war room where we just intentially get together in a room in a kind of concentrated environment and and hack on something to make it make it work or just organically comes into planning and people will assemble around the idea I've seen you see a good idea attracts engineers whereas bad ideas just don't get traction so it's a very healthy marketplace I think for ideas and Doug how do you collaborate in the you know in the scribe logging team you have a lot of data and yeah a lot of pipes so a lot of my experience is very similar to Nadia our team is entirely in London it's quite a large team so that has some communication challenges but we fundamentally it we approach things in the same way you have an idea you reality test your idea with your colleagues maybe write about it you know in a unposted on workplace we use workplace a lot for this kind of thing the difference for describe team is that as a core piece of facebook infrastructure we have people using our service all over the company in many different time zones so that presents one or two challenges we find that there's there's good overlap between like West Coast teams in the US with London towards the end of the day so a structure our days to do project work towards the beginning of the day and reserve the later part of the afternoon for syncing up with customers and making sure that we're providing the right service for them working out what their problems are on how we can help help them solve their problems and so that's VC's and calls and we use VCS a lot yeah I think someone told me that Facebook is probably the largest user of VC in the world it is amazing to walk into a meeting room and you just see who do I want to talk to anywhere dial them their on-screen immersive experience that teams here in London as well and so on how do you collaborate in that integrates internet in space as our team our team is entirely based in London but we support a lot of other internet teams in Seattle DC mpk in the interpretive world we have like the interpreting week which happens twice a year it happened last week and almost all the integrity team get together and we have three days of talks and discussion sessions so we get to know what other peoples are doing what our clients are doing if we are able to cope with their demand for growth and if anything we couldn't support them or if they have any feedback we have a discussion session that's called brother feather so we could gather their feedbacks and this is very efficient way of communicating and got together no more people no better ideas come up with the better objects this kind of collaboration and in our daily life in a collaboration within team we have like the deep dive sessions so someone has a system design or a problem to talk hope he will present his problem and he will come up with a solution but present I try to present to other teammates and we try to not attack but try to evaluate the pros and cons of so it's kind of so your the integrity space is so large now that you you have a week of talks and ideas and just brainstorming and people getting up and giving presentations and having little hacks on the side and yeah yeah that's amazing yeah in in as an engineering manager the collaboration aspects are a little bit different it's a lot about it's less about technical writing more about sharing strategies of plans and roadmaps and opportunities helping find ways for engineers to meet each other to foster these spaces where people can collaborate you want the engineers to come together and work on the good ideas and as an engineering manager you sometimes see a cross across the divide on another team is working in a similar area and the engineers are talking so how do we how do we solve that problem well we might we're gonna have drinks together or we'll have lunch or we'll have a crazy off-site day or we'll fly out to to California or Seattle or New York that's a very common thing actually is a good idea somebody needs something done we don't know how to solve it let's just fly a couple people and hack together for a week it's an extremely common way to sort things and then I often will meet so in the morning is typically writing one-on-ones with my engineers on my team learning about where they are and helping prioritize and coach and give a strategic feedback it's in a feedback on direction the engineers decide what to do I would never say no and – my job is more about have you thought of this oh it's a as big an opportunity as you think or is there a bigger opportunity is this the best use of your time the afternoons tend to be more synching with partner teams so engineering managers with similar problems or users of the system or assistants of my team use and getting aligned about what happens in the next month the next three months six six months and from those will have initiatives like joint war rooms or these weeks where for example our team will come out from Seattle and spend a week with us just learning about what we do and a few ideas will emerge and out of that one or two or three engineers go off and build something new that we hadn't planned for nothing is ever nothing I guess that's the key thing is nothing that ever planned in stone from the start it's always open to change it's always flexible you can always pivot you encouraged to fail early and there's no very different to finance there's no sort of March you must just continue on this project until the date the BRD says you have to deliver I don't know if you worked on projects like that but I did we never would do that we would just stop and we would do something more productive and more useful yeah so we talked a bit about bootcamp as a kind of a transformative experience where you come in and reset your expectations learn the company and start by coding learn the company by coding what was your experience in bootcamp like Swan yeah so my bootcamp was a pretty long one I think I got to decide which team to join on week 7 no wait night I think that's a pretty long one because there was so many like interesting and open teams on the in London and you have chances to so for example if you're interested in them you can first pick up a task from them and it's not that just a task during the task you get to know the context of what their team is working on and stuff like this and then you close down your options to several teams so you get the chance to work with them like sit with them and even go to their weekly meetings and hang out with them for lunch and you have a real feeling of what your future colleagues would be like if you're going to like to work with them or not so it's really a decision you made early and you will not forget your not regret you learn the culture of the team you see I think the pace of working the team view team teams are really different you have to there is no good or bad team it's just as some some some team suits you or not so you gotta choose if you're not pre-allocated you are not forced to join team so you were really happy with your choice then you have a happy life yeah and so there was there a sense of you had you had several options you were looking you were given space after you can't you come back from the classes the class book is finished and so you're doing tasks in teams and exploring and you looked at multiple teams not just integrity did you different teams yeah and also the task you're working on is not some dummy tasks or like your code will be it's not tests your cost will be really shifting abroad and you can have really impact on the web apps and that's used by people out there London it's an amazing experience isn't it to your boot camp for who is trying to learn how to function and you're solving real problems for people on day to day – yeah it's astonishing and then I don't know if you guys get the the pings to maintain the code because it's so later it's out there running so you know the tasks get raised yeah my experience was was pretty interesting as an engineering manager you go through boot camp just like everybody else there's an engineer and you're doing tasks in your classes and you're going through networking I did the back end and him for a stream so it was basically how to build a datacenter how to lay cables how to build a network how bgp worked inside the data center and you just how the proxies work and you're just reconstructing the whole stack from first principles and then doing tasks I was doing JavaScript tasks in the front-end I was doing mobile app so I was doing some back-end Haskell tasks some C++ it was so fun to just have this is like being back in university again you have a task a couple of days hack drink some coffee go for a walk around yeah get a smoothie and the sunshine in California and then at the end you feel like you've got you've learned something useful I spent a little time on on dashboards where so metric driven learning how to use dashboards and run data queries it was really valuable and then I could join my team and the first thing I did was just build a dashboard trying to understand what was going on using the skills I learned in bootcamp so it created that it helped help with the imposter syndrome of to actually know what I'm doing you know I'm able to be useful sort of sweeping up some of the logging tasks that were lying around not only what was your boot camp like it was a little bit different I knew which team I wanted to I wasn't reallocated but I knew that I wanted to join the perfect a peon so yeah so I focused more on the tasks and getting to know different technologies just to be comfortable before I and I think it helped me a lot because at the end of boot camp when I joined my team um I've already done like two or three tasks for them and I've also worked on on everything like it I think I worked on Instagram it's a bit of C and C++ and and and also I think yeah I think I worked on most of the apps and and a lot of the at the backend as well and so and of course it was a lot of fun and especially when we go to for the two weeks in NPK so it's quite a different experience because the size of the campus and the food is much more like a lot more options that is interesting point about the the language stack we projects choose their technologies we don't mandate particular technologies so it's not like it's all Java from top to bottom it's all oracle it's it's the right technology for the right team at the right time and as an engineer or as an engineering manager encouraged to be flexible with technologies so you will do a Haskell task or you will do a JavaScript task and it might be in the same team in the same project it's really means if it pushes your fundamentals a little bit more it's more about your fundamental computer science ability rather than any specialization you've had what was your experience Doug you you had a long open-source background you worked in in kernels no asses and networks for a long time yeah I think I think that boot camp is a really unique experience and the we talked about you know team selection working out which team you really want to work in and I think this is really important yeah thing which I got from boot camp we're starting to build my network in the company so the the people that start on the same day as you will move together through boot camp and you make friends in that group and you form connections in that group and then that Network kind of spreads through and one of the one of the best things I'm about my boot Campbell is visiting mpk and just meeting so many different interesting people working different teams different orgs doing different things and just basically starting to build my network because we talked about Facebook not being a top-down hierarchical company the way that we get things done as engineers is by having a network of people that you can draw on this person understands this this piece of technology that I think that we can work together with and build something new well that's how Facebook it's really the social network inside the company is key to your you know sort of influence it's an astonishing thing that when you push the technology decisions to the engineers the the project's emerged through collaboration and effective collaboration is also sharing lots of talking lots of communication and building a network and and perhaps really partially about building the network I know for engineers who join my team I give them a list of here's 15 people to talk to while you're out in the sunshine having you know takos don't go and meet these people and just talk there's no agenda and there's no specific thing that we're doing yet but they do interesting work and you do interesting work you should be aware of each other that's a very healthy way it's more it's more like open source there's more like University in some ways that it's the engineers coming together to solve the problem very healthy so let's talk about the favorite thing about working at Facebook so you're all in quite different teams and we've made quite a big jump since leaving the banks and the hedge funds what what is keeping you here and how has your life changed for me the hours are different I'm not I'm not explaining my project to to MDS who don't quite understand what we're doing and why who don't understand the technical strategy I don't have those discussions I don't have it's a different kind of discussion I don't have political discussions about is this a good strategic there are some political discussions in banks that are about particular genders of one team or one desk or or 1md those don't seem to happen it's much more about what does the technical merit of the idea does it make sense given the context and skills of the people around and I'm able to structure my time much more effectively so so I block nursery in the morning so I can drop my kids off I can I'll often block off half days just to do writing just to put down ideas on strategy for projects and opportunities for teams to work together that's sort of the level of thinking is much more strategic and intentional and based on writing and sharing ideas and then obviously I put my suits in the back of the cover they're all sitting in the back of the cover now and such an investment in suits it's on has your life changed since you left Canary Wharf a happier life I feel the company is putting a lot of trust in their engineers and the people who do the work it's really up to you to decide which is the best way to approach problems and you have to discuss with within your teams and there's like stuff like this there was no different there are roadmaps a half a half but you really pick up something interesting something more impactful you're in the way you progress and there are new things coming up and there is no mandate of you must be doing this this half and you can you are you are getting trust and there is no black box across the company you can access any code in any product anywhere so if you want to get know about more things there is no blog for us so this you feel you're trusted and the people around you're more supportive you you're not you're not facing people like this is not my business if people could not help you they will say I know I better POC for this maybe you can talk to him it's really more encouraging so you also in this environment you tend to be a nicer person as well you're trying to support people as well don't you say no that's a bad idea do you explain their contacts explain the idea assume that the person has could intend a good attend you have and you find that the pace has changed which you talked about I guess it's a implicit here that we're we're planning in six monthly cycles but we're actually making many smaller decisions and tactical shifts along the way and we're stopping things and trying new things and new ideas just emerged spontaneously it'll be October and you're up I found a better idea do you it's hard to remember the the phase shift of the pace but what was the pace like in the bank was it multi-year planning was it set in stone what the agenda was I feel there is a one big project is to try to merge a lot of tools together into like a gigantic unique tool and this is about two or three years project and it's progressing slowly until the very end of it it might deliver on in mind not deliver so it also really is you don't know the result you just march along the way your car building this huge system that was planned before you join the company it will be delivered after you've left the company yes it may never be delivered yes and critical could be created and fail in the time that this is running exactly yeah and we just don't have projects like that do we know and we talked about fail for us we have larger projects but we break them into and achievable pieces yeah yeah I mean there are big constraints that we face the amount of network capacity they mean number of data centers the number of users these are big numbers that we have to tackle but how we solve that is is not mandate and nobody knows the solution now and thinks what it will be like in 2021 or 2025 you don't that planning where we planned the future I don't know if you ever had be our days where you wrote in the date a particular delivery you the plans with cash will be delivered on this date at this time at this hour a little approvals in place we knew they would do something like that we kind of have some of those constraints inscribed because we're a huge service so we do have to plan for our future capacity you have to keep it up make sure that we order in enough time to to keep up yeah and Nadia what's your favorite thing about working in sapience in testing the thing I like the most is that engineers are in control of their own career like we said Engineers decide what projects they want to do or what ideas they want to work on so that makes me feel like I'm in control of how my career goes I'm not working on a project that someone assigned me to that I might not be interested in or maybe I don't think this project will be successful I decide what I want to do and and so it's it's both a responsibility you take responsibility for your own you take the risk yeah you take the risk and so it feels a lot more empowering but also you we encourage to give feedback really early on so that you know what other people think about what you're doing and what they think about if it's gonna succeed or not or whatever how are you doing it how you're approaching it so it's much easier fee it's much yeah it's much easier for you to change and adjust make some people's feedback early on but also you you know so you you're kind of know where you are where you stand every step of the way so when it comes time to performance review it's not a surprise you know exactly how you did and how and it's also the the way we measure things in terms of impact or all the other dimensions we are the performance review is based on you know what you did and you know how it's gonna be a lot of transparent clear ones like you have a metric as a manager I would say that's a great idea what's your measure of success how will you know if you failed what's the earliest thing you could do that would show this works has anyone else giving you feedback on this idea is there a consensus that this is the right thing are you aware of these other teams such that when you get to pierce it's already very clear what the impact is how that's how it's written it's no surprises it should never be a surprise yeah and that idea that you get feedback very early I think is quite a shift you don't secretly work on a project not show anybody and then launch it to the world we work in smaller increments we put the minimum thing we're up to see if it lands and see if it works and we grow we try on small number of users and yeah we it's always about writing I think maybe there's more there's more burden on engineers to talk a bit about their work and write it down not just to hide in the corner office and and think of ivory tower thoughts that's definitely true I feel like I need to do more writing in fact yes sir Doug how is your life changed you you left the prop trading world behind so I feel more productive here in fact there's the scale that we're working at is quite different that's stretching me as an engineer unfortunately to grow as an engineer I feel like I'm learning new things pretty much all the time which is one of the things that usually makes me happy so that's that's good yeah so how are you being stretched is that you've got the you're building a logging framework building so you've got an operating system you've got a kernel you've got a network stack you've got the C compile all of those things they work together and it's not just on a single machine there are thousands of machines so it's the the interesting challenges of working with a distributed software system is forcing me to to learn how that works and it's quite different from working on a single program on a single machine yeah yeah the scale is astonishingly different and you have more levers available you can talk to the data centers talk to the networking so if the data center people say well this class of traffic is using up too much bandwidth we can change the priorities so the the website gets the first choice of the bandwidth and then our staff will use up all the available bandwidth to to move the background data that's very interesting so is it a you're collaborating with other teams on a shared value to the company it's not territorial yes and it's not you know there's a there's a it's contract a good intent we we assume that we're all contributing good value to the company and not one one team's bandwidth is not more valuable than another it's a consensus that a murder is about how to have a structure that in solve these problems definitely definitely yeah we have to when we talk about bandwidth other very large skills we have to make sure that we're using it effectively if we're wasting all of the network bandwidth for the entire company on something which isn't valuable then we should probably revisit that so we have to bare bare these things in mind but fundamentally we we don't judge people what other people are doing with service we just make sure that it wasn't works that keeps the pipes fine yeah yeah I think the for me the the challenge as an engineering manager it's also about the scope from the growth I work with engineers who are the best I've worked in in my career about the best engineers you don't have you know it's not like a it there's one or two good engineers the bar is it just astonishingly high people are very competent and as an engineering manager you're not trying to coach people up to be mediocre and okay you're trying to optimize these astonishingly good performers to be even better at what they do that's a very different mindset for most engineering managers the it's more about coaching it's more like a sports team where you've got astonishing contributors who each have particular skills and you want them to be better at that thing and so that pushes my strategic and tactical abilities to help project succeed and help engineers find the right opportunity quite a lot I spend a lot of time thinking about that actually we have some we have some live questions here so Baris asks what languages are transferrable or what skills in those languages that's an interesting question so I guess some Doug networking C++ I guess there's some experience from prop trading the developers so the the work that we did on the prop trading thing was mostly in C++ because it was easier to control there C++ is very well supported and very widespread language inside of Facebook so those skills transfer directly it's kind of a workhorse in the data center you know you know in terms of I guess lines of code simpler fast and Java way up there so there's those skills are very common across the industry not just in Facebook but across banking as well so I think those skills it skills in networking in distributed systems caching everything to catch things the same really reliability I think that's the in keeping sockets up talking to exchanges it's very like keeping sockets up talking to a mobile phones definitely yeah a question from Amy how do you do you feel more fulfilled now versus when you're working in finance in terms of the goals and the mission of the organization Nadia I think that's a good question for you do you feel are you making an impact I do feel also one thing about Facebook is that a lot of the projects we work on end up being open sourced so when you're making contribution you know that if you're successful your impact wouldn't be just on the company but maybe yeah so that's it for me that's also one of the things I think of that beautiful code I wrote in the bank that will never see the light of day it's gone but now it's all open sourced you know in first largely open sourced yeah that's true yeah so it's one what about you versus working in finance do you feel there's more fulfilling when you leave the office at the end of the day definitely especially the team I'm working in we help a lot with like protecting the community forgive me I could not just disclose too many details but there there were people like bad actors or bad people that get caught by our systems and they were doing bad things and we called them it we hope to protect people's mind people's eyes and those stuffs I think it's really making a difference you know life of millions of people yes yeah it's a real tangible improvement yeah that's astonishing so we've come to the end of the life a big thanks to our panel of engineers here it's fun Doug and Nadia you can learn more by following the the hashtag finance to Facebook there's a URL on the stream as well that goes to a landing page where you can register your interest and learn more about our stories we've posted some things about that I'd like to thank everybody for tuning tuning in we are growing and hiring in London we have a large office here and we have a lot of fun we need more colleagues so make your move apply online at F P dot careers slash finance to Facebook so thank you everybody

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